An interesting aside to the origin of Magog's armies being the Turkish region, is the Khazar hypothesis.
Just as many of the main players in Bolshevism came from the fringes of traditional Russian society - both literally and figuratively - only to destroy their 'own people', perhaps some of today's Israeli leadership are equally imposters.
There seems to me an obvious inversion of character, between traditional leaders of the Jewish 'spiritual nation' as you call it, and today's political representatives of Israel. An inversion that runs deeper than the mere political alliances between Zionism and the truth-denying western oligarchy.
Perhaps the army against spiritual Israel will be led by its own 'false prophets', so to speak.
Thanks for your comment and engagement, Dan. You present a fascinating observation -- and one I believe is closer to the truth than most are willing to admit. The Khazar hypothesis, whatever its disputed elements, gestures toward a deeper spiritual inversion at play.
As you suggest, the most dangerous threats to spiritual Israel (Safed, for example) may not come from without, but from within -- led by those who wear the name but repudiate the essence.
I think you are onto something with the separation of spiritual Israel from the modern day state of Israel. Especially since the John Hopkins Khazarian Hypothesis study shows that 97.5% of the European “Jews” who colonized modern Israel aren’t of ancient Hebrew blood, whereas 80% of modern Palestinians, are, by contrast. In the Khazarian study, it is actually even northern Turkey where that dna originates, and they fled to Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Germany etc) to avoid a Mongol invasion. Also Rothschild takes credit for creating the modern state of Israel, and what side of the Holy War is he on? Europe is definitely oriented “north.” So I’m going to put modern “Israel” in the hat for Gog/Magog as well. Where are the Lost Tribes of Israel?
Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response. I appreciate your engagement with the distinction between spiritual Israel and the modern state, and your willingness to explore the complex historical, genetic, and geopolitical factors at play.
Your references to recent studies and historical movements added valuable context, and your questions about identity and the fate of the Lost Tribes highlight just how layered and unresolved these issues remain. I appreciate your openness in considering alternative perspectives and for contributing to the conversation.
I'm glad to see you bringing light to this issue. Biblical prophecy is dismissed by many rational thinkers as absurd but the reality is that there are many people in power, at the helms and in the wings of strong nations, who genuinely believe them and take actions in accordance with them. Thinking specifically here of the building of the third temple, return of Jesus, rise of Moshiach, etc. As you note, the influence of these beliefs on geopolitics needs serious attention, as it helps explain what is playing out and perhaps foreshadows where this is heading.
Thank you for your comment, Carolyn! -- well said. Dismissing prophecy as irrelevant overlooks a critical reality -- powerful actors not only believe these visions but shape policy around them. Whether one takes these beliefs literally, symbolically, or somewhere in between, their influence on geopolitics is undeniable. Ignoring this dimension leaves us blind to much of what’s unfolding -- and particularly to what may come next.
Thank you for sharing this! I was raised Anglican and, like many from mainline traditions, only encountered the Scofield Reference Bible recently while researching an article on Christian Zionism. One challenge for many of us Boomers has been distinguishing between the idea of "Spiritual Israel"--as understood in traditional Christian theology--and "Zionist Israel," the modern nation-state.
Your analysis is persuasive: the literal, dispensationalist reading of biblical prophecy--so influential among Boomers--seems likely to fade with our generation. The convergence of Cold War anxieties, mass media, and theological innovation that shaped our worldview simply doesn’t resonate with Millennials and Gen Z, who are rightfully more skeptical of predictive prophecy and less inclined to see Israel through a strictly eschatological lens.
I appreciate your historical timeline, which helped clarify how these ideas became so entrenched for our cohort.
This exploration of Gog, Magog, and the "Armies of Satan" cuts through much of the surface noise, guiding us back to the enduring power of ancient texts like Ezekiel and Revelation. You skillfully demonstrate how these foundational prophecies, with their stark visions of "Divine Order" versus spiritual chaos, offer a lens through which to comprehend even the bewildering complexities of our present moment. It's a vital, albeit challenging, truth you present: that a comprehensive understanding of geopolitics often requires grappling with the very eschatological narratives that shape human perception, even if the modern world largely dismisses them. You suggest that perhaps our collective struggle is not just about nations, but a deeper, archetypal contest for the very soul of humanity, and that your clear distinction between "Zionist Israel" and "Spiritual Israel" offers a crucial way to reconcile seemingly conflicting interpretations within a larger spiritual framework.
Your deep dive into the symbolic dimensions of this conflict, moving beyond a simple literal reading to a more expansive understanding, is commendable. By suggesting that figures like Gog represent "Antichrist figures" and that Magog denotes aligning "forces" rather than mere geography, you invite us to consider how these ancient stories echo through time, reflecting patterns of opposition to what is deemed transcendent and true. This multi-layered approach, drawing on the profound wisdom embedded in various sacred traditions—from the Quran's Ya'juj and Ma'juj to Paul's grafting of the Gentiles onto "Spiritual Israel"—hints at a universal current beneath the diverse expressions of belief. It's as if you're saying: look past the headlines, listen closely to the echoes of forgotten lore, for the real script is being played out on a spiritual stage.
Yet, as you urge for a "global spiritual awakening" and a return to the "Divine Order," a fascinating, almost poetic, paradox emerges. Even a vision of universal truth, in its very act of defining what is sacred and aligned, inherently creates a boundary, a subtle distinction between those who heed the call of the "dry bones" and those who remain in "spiritual nullity." It's almost too neat, isn't it? This powerful, clarifying narrative, aiming to unite all who acknowledge the transcendent, simultaneously establishes the very categories of inclusion and exclusion it seeks to transcend. One might even chuckle at the elegant absurdity: in our earnest pursuit of ultimate truth, we consistently forge the very illusions of separation that give meaning to our quest. And so, the great cosmic joke continues, with us, the earnest truth-seekers, playing our roles to perfection.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and generous analysis. I’m truly grateful for the way you engaged with the post, highlighting both its intentions and its paradoxes with spiritual insight. Your reflections on the deeper currents beneath these ancient narratives--and the boundaries we inevitably create even as we seek unity--resonate strongly. I’m glad the essay sparked such a meaningful response.
These are my unfinished notes basically showing the River Euphrates might be a key clue that woe 2 of Revelation might be the same as the Gog of Magog attack in Ezekiel. Maybe. I’ll make the case that the Euphrates is the symbolic border between the Land of the North, and Isreal
Genesis 15:18 “On that day God concluded with Aʹbram a covenant, saying: “To your seed I WILL GIVE THIS LAND, FROM the river of Egypt TO the GREAT RIVER, the river Eu·phraʹtes:”
Deuteronomy 11:24 “Every place on which the sole of your foot will tread will become yours. From the wilderness up to Lebʹa·non, from the River, THE RIVER EUPHRATES, to the western sea your BOUNDARY will become.”
Joshua 1:4 “From the wilderness and this Lebʹa·non to the GREAT RIVER, THE RIVER EUPHRATES, that is, all the land of the Hitʹtites, and to the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun your TERRITORY will prove to be.”
So: This is where we see the tie-in to the "North"
Jeremiah 46:6,10 “6 ‘Let not the swift one try to flee, and let not the mighty man try to escape. Up NORTH BY THE BANK OF THE RIVER EUPHRATES they have stumbled and fallen.’ ….. 10 “And that day belongs to the Sovereign Lord, God of hosts, the day of vengeance for avenging himself upon his adversaries. And the sword will certainly devour and satisfy itself and take its fill of their blood, for the Sovereign Lord, God of hosts, has a sacrifice in THE LAND OF THE NORTH BY THE RIVER EUPHRATES.”
So the “four angels bound at the River Euphrates” in Revelation could be an attack from the land of the North onto “the soil of Isreal” from their shared border … ANGELS BEING INVOLVED could mean SELECTIVE EXTERMINATION/DIVINE JUDGEMENT … with only the wicked suffering harm.
Remember that judgement time in the past … the secretary’s inkhorn story (Ezekiel 9) , for example God directed “from my sanctuary you should start” … God judged his people first…. Could perhaps this (6th trumpet/2nd woe) be …. Well notice Revelation 9:13 – 11:13 is all the 6th trumpet … it starts with an attack, then continues with a measuring of the temple, (a refining of his people?) a preaching work … then 11:14 says the third woe starts.
Well constructed! Thank you for your comment and engagement on the issue. Assyria (northeast of Israel) was a dominant power in the ancient world and, from Israel’s perspective, represented the "north" beyond the Euphrates. Gog’s coalition aligns with regions north and northeast of the Euphrates--primarily modern Turkey and Iran.
In the article, I included Azerbaijan because of its strategic value for troop movement. It is a crucial land bridge from Turkey toward the south and east, and Turkey and Azerbaijan have a close military alliance, often described as “one nation, two states.”
The coalition, as I wrote, also includes African nations—specifically Sudan (Cush) and Libya (Put)--suggesting a pan-Islamic force aligned against Israel (and presumably Israel’s allies).
I intuit that the Muslim Brotherhood could play an important role in marshalling this coalition. Oddly, Ezekiel excludes Egypt, which appears frequently in biblical history and prophecy. That exclusion makes geopolitical sense: the Muslim Brotherhood remains banned and officially designated as a terrorist organization in Egypt.
Like you, I consider the Gog-Magog prophecy an End Times conflagration that likely began October 7, 2023. As I write this, the U.S. is moving toward a war footing. Buckle up. Thank you again for your contribution.
No problem … I hadn’t brought into the discussion the two “invasion style” king of the north attacks mentioned near the end of Daniel 11:16, 11:41 both mention entering “the land of the Decoration” in Daniel. Typically a poetic reference to the gold covered temple … Mt Zion, etc … even the whole land of Israel (Ezekiel 20:6)
But Babylon was called “the Decoration of Kingdoms” too. (Isaiah 13:19) and there is some comment in Ezekiel 25:9 about Moab having a “decoration” and there is a link between Tyre and the word “decoration” … anyway, long story short. Daniel 11:16 or 41 is likely Woe 2 / Gog of Magog. Trying to figure out which, is one of my to-do projects (that needs to start with lots of prayer).
I forgot to mention …. The second one (vs 41) talks about Egypt and Libyans and Ethiopians … that was the original reason I thought to mention it.
An interesting aside to the origin of Magog's armies being the Turkish region, is the Khazar hypothesis.
Just as many of the main players in Bolshevism came from the fringes of traditional Russian society - both literally and figuratively - only to destroy their 'own people', perhaps some of today's Israeli leadership are equally imposters.
There seems to me an obvious inversion of character, between traditional leaders of the Jewish 'spiritual nation' as you call it, and today's political representatives of Israel. An inversion that runs deeper than the mere political alliances between Zionism and the truth-denying western oligarchy.
Perhaps the army against spiritual Israel will be led by its own 'false prophets', so to speak.
Thanks for your comment and engagement, Dan. You present a fascinating observation -- and one I believe is closer to the truth than most are willing to admit. The Khazar hypothesis, whatever its disputed elements, gestures toward a deeper spiritual inversion at play.
As you suggest, the most dangerous threats to spiritual Israel (Safed, for example) may not come from without, but from within -- led by those who wear the name but repudiate the essence.
I think you are onto something with the separation of spiritual Israel from the modern day state of Israel. Especially since the John Hopkins Khazarian Hypothesis study shows that 97.5% of the European “Jews” who colonized modern Israel aren’t of ancient Hebrew blood, whereas 80% of modern Palestinians, are, by contrast. In the Khazarian study, it is actually even northern Turkey where that dna originates, and they fled to Europe (Poland, Ukraine, Russia, Germany etc) to avoid a Mongol invasion. Also Rothschild takes credit for creating the modern state of Israel, and what side of the Holy War is he on? Europe is definitely oriented “north.” So I’m going to put modern “Israel” in the hat for Gog/Magog as well. Where are the Lost Tribes of Israel?
Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response. I appreciate your engagement with the distinction between spiritual Israel and the modern state, and your willingness to explore the complex historical, genetic, and geopolitical factors at play.
Your references to recent studies and historical movements added valuable context, and your questions about identity and the fate of the Lost Tribes highlight just how layered and unresolved these issues remain. I appreciate your openness in considering alternative perspectives and for contributing to the conversation.
I'm glad to see you bringing light to this issue. Biblical prophecy is dismissed by many rational thinkers as absurd but the reality is that there are many people in power, at the helms and in the wings of strong nations, who genuinely believe them and take actions in accordance with them. Thinking specifically here of the building of the third temple, return of Jesus, rise of Moshiach, etc. As you note, the influence of these beliefs on geopolitics needs serious attention, as it helps explain what is playing out and perhaps foreshadows where this is heading.
Thank you for your comment, Carolyn! -- well said. Dismissing prophecy as irrelevant overlooks a critical reality -- powerful actors not only believe these visions but shape policy around them. Whether one takes these beliefs literally, symbolically, or somewhere in between, their influence on geopolitics is undeniable. Ignoring this dimension leaves us blind to much of what’s unfolding -- and particularly to what may come next.
https://substack.com/@rhythmiccarnage/note/p-166664882?utm_source=notes-share-action&r=2qy0gu
Thank you for sharing this! I was raised Anglican and, like many from mainline traditions, only encountered the Scofield Reference Bible recently while researching an article on Christian Zionism. One challenge for many of us Boomers has been distinguishing between the idea of "Spiritual Israel"--as understood in traditional Christian theology--and "Zionist Israel," the modern nation-state.
Your analysis is persuasive: the literal, dispensationalist reading of biblical prophecy--so influential among Boomers--seems likely to fade with our generation. The convergence of Cold War anxieties, mass media, and theological innovation that shaped our worldview simply doesn’t resonate with Millennials and Gen Z, who are rightfully more skeptical of predictive prophecy and less inclined to see Israel through a strictly eschatological lens.
I appreciate your historical timeline, which helped clarify how these ideas became so entrenched for our cohort.
This exploration of Gog, Magog, and the "Armies of Satan" cuts through much of the surface noise, guiding us back to the enduring power of ancient texts like Ezekiel and Revelation. You skillfully demonstrate how these foundational prophecies, with their stark visions of "Divine Order" versus spiritual chaos, offer a lens through which to comprehend even the bewildering complexities of our present moment. It's a vital, albeit challenging, truth you present: that a comprehensive understanding of geopolitics often requires grappling with the very eschatological narratives that shape human perception, even if the modern world largely dismisses them. You suggest that perhaps our collective struggle is not just about nations, but a deeper, archetypal contest for the very soul of humanity, and that your clear distinction between "Zionist Israel" and "Spiritual Israel" offers a crucial way to reconcile seemingly conflicting interpretations within a larger spiritual framework.
Your deep dive into the symbolic dimensions of this conflict, moving beyond a simple literal reading to a more expansive understanding, is commendable. By suggesting that figures like Gog represent "Antichrist figures" and that Magog denotes aligning "forces" rather than mere geography, you invite us to consider how these ancient stories echo through time, reflecting patterns of opposition to what is deemed transcendent and true. This multi-layered approach, drawing on the profound wisdom embedded in various sacred traditions—from the Quran's Ya'juj and Ma'juj to Paul's grafting of the Gentiles onto "Spiritual Israel"—hints at a universal current beneath the diverse expressions of belief. It's as if you're saying: look past the headlines, listen closely to the echoes of forgotten lore, for the real script is being played out on a spiritual stage.
Yet, as you urge for a "global spiritual awakening" and a return to the "Divine Order," a fascinating, almost poetic, paradox emerges. Even a vision of universal truth, in its very act of defining what is sacred and aligned, inherently creates a boundary, a subtle distinction between those who heed the call of the "dry bones" and those who remain in "spiritual nullity." It's almost too neat, isn't it? This powerful, clarifying narrative, aiming to unite all who acknowledge the transcendent, simultaneously establishes the very categories of inclusion and exclusion it seeks to transcend. One might even chuckle at the elegant absurdity: in our earnest pursuit of ultimate truth, we consistently forge the very illusions of separation that give meaning to our quest. And so, the great cosmic joke continues, with us, the earnest truth-seekers, playing our roles to perfection.
Thank you so much for your thoughtful and generous analysis. I’m truly grateful for the way you engaged with the post, highlighting both its intentions and its paradoxes with spiritual insight. Your reflections on the deeper currents beneath these ancient narratives--and the boundaries we inevitably create even as we seek unity--resonate strongly. I’m glad the essay sparked such a meaningful response.
These are my unfinished notes basically showing the River Euphrates might be a key clue that woe 2 of Revelation might be the same as the Gog of Magog attack in Ezekiel. Maybe. I’ll make the case that the Euphrates is the symbolic border between the Land of the North, and Isreal
Genesis 15:18 “On that day God concluded with Aʹbram a covenant, saying: “To your seed I WILL GIVE THIS LAND, FROM the river of Egypt TO the GREAT RIVER, the river Eu·phraʹtes:”
Deuteronomy 11:24 “Every place on which the sole of your foot will tread will become yours. From the wilderness up to Lebʹa·non, from the River, THE RIVER EUPHRATES, to the western sea your BOUNDARY will become.”
Joshua 1:4 “From the wilderness and this Lebʹa·non to the GREAT RIVER, THE RIVER EUPHRATES, that is, all the land of the Hitʹtites, and to the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun your TERRITORY will prove to be.”
So: This is where we see the tie-in to the "North"
Jeremiah 46:6,10 “6 ‘Let not the swift one try to flee, and let not the mighty man try to escape. Up NORTH BY THE BANK OF THE RIVER EUPHRATES they have stumbled and fallen.’ ….. 10 “And that day belongs to the Sovereign Lord, God of hosts, the day of vengeance for avenging himself upon his adversaries. And the sword will certainly devour and satisfy itself and take its fill of their blood, for the Sovereign Lord, God of hosts, has a sacrifice in THE LAND OF THE NORTH BY THE RIVER EUPHRATES.”
So the “four angels bound at the River Euphrates” in Revelation could be an attack from the land of the North onto “the soil of Isreal” from their shared border … ANGELS BEING INVOLVED could mean SELECTIVE EXTERMINATION/DIVINE JUDGEMENT … with only the wicked suffering harm.
Remember that judgement time in the past … the secretary’s inkhorn story (Ezekiel 9) , for example God directed “from my sanctuary you should start” … God judged his people first…. Could perhaps this (6th trumpet/2nd woe) be …. Well notice Revelation 9:13 – 11:13 is all the 6th trumpet … it starts with an attack, then continues with a measuring of the temple, (a refining of his people?) a preaching work … then 11:14 says the third woe starts.
Well constructed! Thank you for your comment and engagement on the issue. Assyria (northeast of Israel) was a dominant power in the ancient world and, from Israel’s perspective, represented the "north" beyond the Euphrates. Gog’s coalition aligns with regions north and northeast of the Euphrates--primarily modern Turkey and Iran.
In the article, I included Azerbaijan because of its strategic value for troop movement. It is a crucial land bridge from Turkey toward the south and east, and Turkey and Azerbaijan have a close military alliance, often described as “one nation, two states.”
The coalition, as I wrote, also includes African nations—specifically Sudan (Cush) and Libya (Put)--suggesting a pan-Islamic force aligned against Israel (and presumably Israel’s allies).
I intuit that the Muslim Brotherhood could play an important role in marshalling this coalition. Oddly, Ezekiel excludes Egypt, which appears frequently in biblical history and prophecy. That exclusion makes geopolitical sense: the Muslim Brotherhood remains banned and officially designated as a terrorist organization in Egypt.
Like you, I consider the Gog-Magog prophecy an End Times conflagration that likely began October 7, 2023. As I write this, the U.S. is moving toward a war footing. Buckle up. Thank you again for your contribution.
No problem … I hadn’t brought into the discussion the two “invasion style” king of the north attacks mentioned near the end of Daniel 11:16, 11:41 both mention entering “the land of the Decoration” in Daniel. Typically a poetic reference to the gold covered temple … Mt Zion, etc … even the whole land of Israel (Ezekiel 20:6)
But Babylon was called “the Decoration of Kingdoms” too. (Isaiah 13:19) and there is some comment in Ezekiel 25:9 about Moab having a “decoration” and there is a link between Tyre and the word “decoration” … anyway, long story short. Daniel 11:16 or 41 is likely Woe 2 / Gog of Magog. Trying to figure out which, is one of my to-do projects (that needs to start with lots of prayer).
I forgot to mention …. The second one (vs 41) talks about Egypt and Libyans and Ethiopians … that was the original reason I thought to mention it.
angry much
I believe he has Substack confused with Yahoo Chat.